What is the Greatest W.T.C. First XV of Them All?
Chris Bean's Ultimate W.T.C XV (see below) has created quite a stir amongst the faithful. "Bring back JP Eason!" raged one "anonymous" Wesleyan (quite possibly JP himself!). And "Blackie" made the very reasonable point that the "Bean Team" was chockful of (admittedly very good) modern players but ignored some older heroes. So Blackie named No.8 Bruce Ahlers as his captain and included two older old boys - Willie Royal and the Cliff Watene - in his front row. This led to another anonymous contributor arguing that his team of '85 would have beaten all-comers. Which begs an obvious question: what is the strongest Wesley First XV of all-time?
Chris Bean's Ultimate W.T.C XV (see below) has created quite a stir amongst the faithful. "Bring back JP Eason!" raged one "anonymous" Wesleyan (quite possibly JP himself!). And "Blackie" made the very reasonable point that the "Bean Team" was chockful of (admittedly very good) modern players but ignored some older heroes. So Blackie named No.8 Bruce Ahlers as his captain and included two older old boys - Willie Royal and the Cliff Watene - in his front row. This led to another anonymous contributor arguing that his team of '85 would have beaten all-comers. Which begs an obvious question: what is the strongest Wesley First XV of all-time?
The Moascar Cup sides of the early 80s (when, exactly, did we win the Moascar Cup?)
Or one of our five New Zealand champion sides... the Grinter-coached outfit of 1990? The two sides Amanaki Palavi coached... the Jonah Lomu-inspired team '93? and '97 team (with George Stowers and Hale T-Pole part of perhaps the strongest Wesley forward pack of all-time?)
Or the famous Nick Ledger-coached 2001 side that now mostly plays under the pseudonym of "Waikato"?
Or the explosive 2004 team coached by the Chris Bean/Saua Leaupepe/Waisake Sotutu triumverate?
Or perhaps it was none of these sides. Another anonymous contributor suggested the boys of '85 were the best team of all and, certainly, it's a strong team on paper. Remember these names?:
1. Tonga Aleamotua
2 Aaron Clarke
3. Alan Tauranga
4. Steve Autagavaia
5. Mark Royal
6. Kaneti Kirifi
7. Ian Honeycombe
8. Niki Tuwhangai
9. Darren Corfield
10. Grant TeWhare
11. Naseri Setu
12. Tukua Tonga
13. Winston Tanielu
14. Cassino Doyle
15. Russell Hana
While I'm sure Cassino Doyle, Niki Tuwhangai and Alan Tauranga played First XV years later than '85, this is certainly a formidable team and would run a Wesleyan side from any era close.
So what's the best team of all? Only rule here is that you decide on the basis of how good players were when they were at Wesley, not on how good they would later become. We want to know which Wesley XV, when it was at the absolute peak of its powers, was the best.
Oh, one more rule. No cheap shots at teams other than your own!
Chris Bean's Ultimate W.T.C XV (see below) has created quite a stir amongst the faithful. "Bring back JP Eason!" raged one "anonymous" Wesleyan (quite possibly JP himself!). And "Blackie" made the very reasonable point that the "Bean Team" was chockful of (admittedly very good) modern players but ignored some older heroes. So Blackie named No.8 Bruce Ahlers as his captain and included two older old boys - Willie Royal and the Cliff Watene - in his front row. This led to another anonymous contributor arguing that his team of '85 would have beaten all-comers. Which begs an obvious question: what is the strongest Wesley First XV of all-time?
The Moascar Cup sides of the early 80s (when, exactly, did we win the Moascar Cup?)
Or one of our five New Zealand champion sides... the Grinter-coached outfit of 1990? The two sides Amanaki Palavi coached... the Jonah Lomu-inspired team '93? and '97 team (with George Stowers and Hale T-Pole part of perhaps the strongest Wesley forward pack of all-time?)
Or the famous Nick Ledger-coached 2001 side that now mostly plays under the pseudonym of "Waikato"?
Or the explosive 2004 team coached by the Chris Bean/Saua Leaupepe/Waisake Sotutu triumverate?
Or perhaps it was none of these sides. Another anonymous contributor suggested the boys of '85 were the best team of all and, certainly, it's a strong team on paper. Remember these names?:
1. Tonga Aleamotua
2 Aaron Clarke
3. Alan Tauranga
4. Steve Autagavaia
5. Mark Royal
6. Kaneti Kirifi
7. Ian Honeycombe
8. Niki Tuwhangai
9. Darren Corfield
10. Grant TeWhare
11. Naseri Setu
12. Tukua Tonga
13. Winston Tanielu
14. Cassino Doyle
15. Russell Hana
While I'm sure Cassino Doyle, Niki Tuwhangai and Alan Tauranga played First XV years later than '85, this is certainly a formidable team and would run a Wesleyan side from any era close.
So what's the best team of all? Only rule here is that you decide on the basis of how good players were when they were at Wesley, not on how good they would later become. We want to know which Wesley XV, when it was at the absolute peak of its powers, was the best.
Oh, one more rule. No cheap shots at teams other than your own!
posted by Commander at 12:56 pm
11 Comments:
Kia Ora no tatou,
Firstly big wraps to Peter for making this happen. To answer the question "when did we win the Moascar Cup" - from my experience at Wesley 77-81 I'm aware of two Moascar Cup winning teams only; 1970 (Doug Rollerson's era) and our own 1981 team. Now as far as I know our 1981 team never produced any allblacks or other players of particular note. However our success as a team culminating in winning the hallowed cup (all be it for a very short period) was more due to team spirit and the brotherhood forged in the old dorms and on the playing fields on puhitahi hill.
I concede that the players and the teams from the 90's on were certainly impressive and formidable with many famous names coming to the fore. In my day we were pround of our one and only all black in the history of the School (Doug)!! How times have changed.
Now to players in my era. 77-78 ; there was no more fearsome sight than Willie Royal thundering down the side line trampling over happless defenders ( poor buggers). Kirk Jennings - super fit, wide ranging flanker. Lance King - centre, fastest player during my 5 years.
A few players from the 1981 team whom I feel priviledged to have played with - Mark Royal, no 8. Combative and intelligent. Ben Nonoa - centre, as bit as a telephone box and twice as fast! Pewharangi Reedy - flanker, not the biggest but the gutsiest, run at him at your peril.
All in all, a very interesting debate, comparing eras. We only played in local secondary school competitions with a few annual fixtures thrown in Te Aute, Church College etc. Funnily enough Wesley wasn't really a noted rugby school back then (cricket was more our thing), but we won more than we lost and I like to think that we paved the way for the glory years that were to follow.
Noho mai ra.
PS - Wille Royal would sneak into that ultimate team ......if it was up to me.
This is a tough one to pick......many teams I am sure deserved to be recognised as the "best" when in their prime.
Their have been three sides that won the Moascar Cup: 1971( I think this date is correct) v Northland College; 1981 v St Stephens and 1986 V M.A.G.S. Two sides have drawn: 1993 v Gisborne BHS and 2004 V Christchurch BHS.
In my time as a student/player the 1986 side was the best- Moascar Cup, first team to beat Te Aute, runners-up in National Sevens Final...only 3 defeats.
Since then though better sides have taken the Wesley name to the top:
The 1989 side was an outstanding team and only lost narrowly to Kelston BHS in the NZ Finals plus NZ 7's Champs.
Then in 1990 the first Wesley side to claim the NZ 1xv title when they defeated Gisborne BHS and I think only had one defeat.
The 1993 side lead by Jonah who won the NZ 1xv title V St Pauls Collegiate and NZ 7's crown...however they lost the Counties final to Pukekohe HS and the traditional to Tip.
The 1997 side is the team that could challenge to be the best....NZ 1xv Champions who thrashed Palmerston North BHS in the final, World 10's Champions (7's I think as well, 3 made NZ Schools team (Seilala Mapusua, George Stowers, Hale T-Pole)however they did fall to CCNZ in the traditional fixture (match played 3 days after returning from a very tough tour of OZ)
However the side in my mind that deserves to be recognised as the best to date is the 2001 side. NZ 1xv Champions who defeated Rotorua BHS....both sides were undefeated heading into this match. NZ 7's title, U21 Counties club Champions....this was the best "TEAM" they did not rely on an individual star of the team.....the were the ultimate package- Mike Spence was an exceptional leader and around him he had Sitiveni Sivivatu, Tomasi Soqeta, Tame Tupou, Sailosi Tagicakibau and Ezra Taylor to mention some who has risen to the top.
The 2004 side as team did exceptionaly well considering they were made up of players who were new to this level of rugby. They only suffered one defeat and drew the NZ Final. This was a team that performed well above everyones expectatations and came agonisingly close to winning the the NZ tile and Moascar Cup outright.
The above comments do reflect teams of the modern period so I would be very interested to know how teams of the 50's,60's and 70's would match up.
My favourite annual game for Wesley,was when they played St Stephens at their home ground, and beat them in 1989. I don't think Wesley had beaten Tipene there for some time. Still remember the awesome try scored by Wesley (the only try of the game!!)
The 1981 team was the first to beat
St Stephens in like 50 years prior to that our first 15 up till the 1970s, played their 2nd 15.Their first 15 competed in the Counties/Auckland under 19 or 21 comps.Ergo, the 1981 is the ultimate dream team.Stan Nikau scored the winning try.Forget about the loss to St Kents.We were the first to beat TIPENE.
There are few names that come to mind:
Aisea Aholehei- Aisea was awesome and hard to stop when he was in form.
Waisake Sotutu- Waisake could turn a game around.
Campbell Bryce- Strong forward.
Simon Hancock- Halfback with guts and determination
What is the best team?
1. It was a team that have no outstanding (Secondary School) player but was making an impact on the field of 15 & 7 games.Moascar Cup Winner and beating Te Aute, CCNZ and some of the big names.86.
2. A team may have a soccer player for a Coach and who couldnt even catch a high ball, and let alone a game plan, but was turning up every game day and make an effort. Still proud to be Wesley 1st XV after loosing a few games. Although a few star player should have taken over as assistant Coach...These player were massive in height and weight.Get into a few brawl, I mean an all out brawl because a parent on the other side was calling out to get that big black bastard.... it was a laugh in the showers but the boss wasnt impress. 84 & 85 1st XV
3. In fact any Wesley 1st XV have different characters, coaches and players makeup. We did enjoy the 86 team, with a great coach, parents support, students support and a 2nd XV that give us a hard game on training day. If Grinter was prep 85 1st XV on his first year in school, the 86 will be more dynamic and successful I believe.This team was more mobile and fitter and became the baseline team Grinter develop the rest on.
So they are my Great Teams in many way and form.
For individual players, they are all OK but if they wore the School, Stanton, or that red colour house ( must be old, cant remember that house), just killed them all. Eh Chris.
i think 89 team won all traditional game. Tips was good to beat them at their ground and CC Hamilton got beaten in the game as well as got the beating after the game when boys were doing the haka???? Aisea flaten Patrick Kailahi from CC.
you guys are forgetting Sam Nonoa, no better fullback or winger on his day, he could tackle like a forward , and had pace to burn, the most important thing though is this guy had a huge ticker.
gotta say in my years 78-84 81 team was good lost to tip earlier in year i thought we had a good team in 84 but self destructed{discipline, fitness] led all teams at halftime but blew it even lost to tip thirds on an abysmal wed afternoon. saw the mags game at eden park fantastic try by russell in corner magnificently converted by brett for drama this was the best tho coming home in 81 after beating tip was oh so special. saw the odd game after this , was shocked to see jonah playing centre down at ta who was stopped in his tracks by billy weepu piris bro a loss that cost me quite a few jugs the team that won the first title was a dream but in my years i come up with this team
1me haha
2tusi
3willie
4ted
5steve
6dixie
7danny
8mark
9niki
10abel
12winston
13ben
14lance
11junior
15vince/pete
aroha mai vince and pete but i think george can be fullback
The '89 Wesley 1ST VX was a great team....the game against Tipene at their home ground was a awesome game & experience...I remember a great try being scored by the Wesley #11 to help give Wesley a famous victory....
Post a Comment
<< Home