The Ultimate W.T.C. 1st XV
He used to collect stamps. He was a feared Dungeons and Dragons master. He won the All-Paerata Knucklebones championships six years running (and was placed second three more times). But now old boy Chris Bean (1983-88), acting Deputy Principal at Wesley, has a new hobby. While normal people mow lawns, go to the beach, read the papers... Chris's evenings, weekends, his every spare waking moment is spent selecting then re-selecting a WESLEY COLLEGE DREAM TEAM.Here, for the first time, is Chris's ultimate Wesley 1st XV (bracketed are the teams each player has subsequently been associated with; the year listed is their last year at Wesley):
**
1 - Sekope Kepu (Counties) – 2004
2 - Mark Price (Counties) – 1998
3 - Edwin Talakai (Tonga) – 1989
4 - George Stowers (Counties & Samoa) – 1997
5 - Koula Tukino (Counties) - 1995
6 - Hale T-Pole (Otago & Southland) – 1997
7 - Danny Kaleopa (Auckland & Samoa) – 1985
8 - Jonah Lomu (Counties, Wellington & All Blacks) – 1993
9 - Rhys Duggan (Waikato & All Blacks) – 1990
10 - Doug Rollerson (Manawatu & All Blacks) – 1971
11 - Sitiveni Sivivatu (Counties, Waikato & All Blacks) – 2001
12 - Seilala Mapusua (Otago & Samoa) – 1998
13 - Casey Laulala (Canterbury & All Blacks) – 2001
14 - Waisake Sotutu (Auckland & Fiji) – 1889
15 - Sale Sorovaki (Manawatu, Wellington & Fiji) – 1987
Reserves
16 - Niva Tau’oso (Counties& Jnr All Blacks) – 1998
17 - Stephen Donald (Waikato& Jnr All Blacks) – 2001
18 - Sailosi Tagicakibau (Taranaki & Samoa) – 2001
19 - Tame Tupou (Brisbane Broncos& Kiwis – 2001
20 - Mike Spence (Manawatu) – 2001
21 - Tomasi Soqeta (Taranaki) – 2001
22 - Waka Setitaia (Counties) – 2000
Coaches
H.Tauroa – 1973
A.C.Grinter – 1991
Manager
M. Tod – Current
Others considered: Shaun Clotworthy (Otago) – 1986, Salesi Moimoi (Tonga)– 1996, Tekori Luteru (Samoa) – 2001, Te Hurinui Muru (Waikato) – 1983, Tevita Mailau (Auckland) – 2000, Sam Nonoa (Waikato) – 1990
**
So what do you think of this team? Is Chris, the current Wesley First XV coach, out to lunch? Would you really play Jonah at No.8 ahead of Tomasi Soqeta who, remember, had a monster game against the Lions last year? If not, where would you play the big man? Could you push Sitiveni on to the right wing, put Jonah in on the left and move Waisake to fullback? And what of the coaches? Shouldn’t Amanaki Palavi, winner of two New Zealand First XV titles and three New Zealand Sevens title, be wearing the coach’s trackie? Share your thoughts here.
**
1 - Sekope Kepu (Counties) – 2004
2 - Mark Price (Counties) – 1998
3 - Edwin Talakai (Tonga) – 1989
4 - George Stowers (Counties & Samoa) – 1997
5 - Koula Tukino (Counties) - 1995
6 - Hale T-Pole (Otago & Southland) – 1997
7 - Danny Kaleopa (Auckland & Samoa) – 1985
8 - Jonah Lomu (Counties, Wellington & All Blacks) – 1993
9 - Rhys Duggan (Waikato & All Blacks) – 1990
10 - Doug Rollerson (Manawatu & All Blacks) – 1971
11 - Sitiveni Sivivatu (Counties, Waikato & All Blacks) – 2001
12 - Seilala Mapusua (Otago & Samoa) – 1998
13 - Casey Laulala (Canterbury & All Blacks) – 2001
14 - Waisake Sotutu (Auckland & Fiji) – 1889
15 - Sale Sorovaki (Manawatu, Wellington & Fiji) – 1987
Reserves
16 - Niva Tau’oso (Counties& Jnr All Blacks) – 1998
17 - Stephen Donald (Waikato& Jnr All Blacks) – 2001
18 - Sailosi Tagicakibau (Taranaki & Samoa) – 2001
19 - Tame Tupou (Brisbane Broncos& Kiwis – 2001
20 - Mike Spence (Manawatu) – 2001
21 - Tomasi Soqeta (Taranaki) – 2001
22 - Waka Setitaia (Counties) – 2000
Coaches
H.Tauroa – 1973
A.C.Grinter – 1991
Manager
M. Tod – Current
Others considered: Shaun Clotworthy (Otago) – 1986, Salesi Moimoi (Tonga)– 1996, Tekori Luteru (Samoa) – 2001, Te Hurinui Muru (Waikato) – 1983, Tevita Mailau (Auckland) – 2000, Sam Nonoa (Waikato) – 1990
**
So what do you think of this team? Is Chris, the current Wesley First XV coach, out to lunch? Would you really play Jonah at No.8 ahead of Tomasi Soqeta who, remember, had a monster game against the Lions last year? If not, where would you play the big man? Could you push Sitiveni on to the right wing, put Jonah in on the left and move Waisake to fullback? And what of the coaches? Shouldn’t Amanaki Palavi, winner of two New Zealand First XV titles and three New Zealand Sevens title, be wearing the coach’s trackie? Share your thoughts here.
posted by Commander at 11:49 am
707 Comments:
Yeah I'd play Tomasi at No.8 and move Jonah to the wing. Jonah may have played No.8 (as well as lock, centre and everywhere else) at WTC, but he was even more destructive when he had space. Which is why you want him out wide. Otherwise, he's just a battering ram (albeit the most lethal in rugby history).
Bro, how much kava have been drinking? Sure Tomasi had a HUGE game against the Lions, but he needs to do more than just that. If you look at our team, there's no doubt we're stronger in the backs than the forwards which is why I can't understand why Bean has leave Tame Tupou on the bench. He just HAS to start. So I'd move him into second-row, move Koula to No.8, Jonah to his rightful position at No.11, bribe Siti to move to the other wing and play Waisake at fullback.
Nah, I'd still play Tomasi. But you're right about Tupou. You'd just have to make sure he remembered to release the ball in the tackle.
Mate, Bean needs to be BAKED! I know Doug Rollerson used to be a good player, but he's getting on a bit now ain't he? And what about Waisake. According to this site, the Black Pearl left school in 1889 which makes him roughly 135-years old.
So Beach has got Sekope Kepu starting ahead of Tevita Mailau? While I have no doubt Sekope will go on to be a great player, he's only propped for one season.
I'd go with Tevita.
Yeah CB doesn't even have Tevita on the bench.
Tame's work rate does not justfly him being included which is why he went to league were are talking about 1st xv Tomasi was a monster who should be no 8 Jonah on the wing. Sekope has too much skill to leave out Tevita was a good prop but that was all may explain why he has not gone on clearly the 2000-2001 side was the best of all time
I disagree with you Anonymous. Tevita's still young and I'm told he's broken all the strength records at Auckland rugby. Given that most props don't reach their peak until their late 20s at least, Tevita still has time on his side.
And as for Tame's workrate... sure he was a bit lazy at school - weren't we all! - but he's been MASHING people up at Brisbane. He's bigger, more mobile and more skilled than Brad Thorn who, you'll recall, was an All Black a couple of seasons ago.
1)Tonga Aleamotua
2)Aaron Clarke
3)Allan Tauranga
4)Steve Autagavaia
5)Mark Royal
6)Kaneti Kirifi
7)Ian Honeycombe
8)Niki Tuwhangai
10)Grant TeWhare
11)Naseri Setu
12)Tukua Tonga
13)Winston Tanielu
14)Cassino Doyle
15)Russel Hana
This is a team to challenge CB's team. Do you remember any of these names. Maybe never made the next step up,but just as good in their prime!!Boys(or should that be men) of 85!!
Blackie,
Cheers for that... an excellent post.
I was wondering how long it would take for an older old student to remind us that just how good some of those older Wesleyans used to be. Some of us younger onesforget that there was no Top Four back in those days, just the Moascar Cup. And Wesley teams did used to win this.
Given that your team is, generally, an older-school side, I was interested in why you picked Stephen Donald ahead of Doug Rollerson.
Anonymous,
That's a pretty formidable side you've named and I reckon it'd give CB's team a decent run (if you were selecting on the basis of their best form at school).
Big Tonga Aleamotua... who'll ever forget his rumbling runs. Kaneti Kirifi was just dynamic and there can't have been many Wesley No.8's with the talent of Niki Tuwhangai.
So... who's your halfback? Shaun Clotworthy. Or Rhys?
Oh yeah, sorry about that. Halfback would be Darren Corfield, and no I didn't pick the team with Donald and Rllerson. That's someone else. This is one of the Boys of '85. Cheers
Hi to you all
Great to see the interest being created.
I see Blackie that your suggetsions have a Waikato flavour. Did not know that Cliff Watene played for Waikato....but would he have being better than Rhys??? to be fair I never saw Cliff play so you would be a better judge of that.
To anonymous: The team selected under the 85 banner (noted a few either side of that time period)would have put up a good battle but I have to be honest considering I have been involved in both era's that the current teams are much fitter, smarter and more skillfull (size would not be a factor). This could be relective of the coaches in the last 16yrs. Currently at the school their are four coaches who have taken their respective Wesley 1xv's and 7's teams to National titles. This experince is being filtered through the current 2xv,u15 and 1xv sides.
On cetain individuals its a tough call to pick. Do you select them based on how they played for the 1xv during their time or how they developed after school. From my ultimate team selection seven never played for NZ Schools but all went on to be selected for various National sides.
From my memory Steve Autagavaia was the biggest player to wear the black and white......both height and width....but he could he be lifted as a lock in todays game or mobile enough? In my opion Danny Kaleopa was the best player to wear the Wesley strip....he would just pip Jonah by a nose.
Great to read your thoughts.
Cheers
How could Grinter coach the team he has spent the last nine years with his Rotorua International 1st xv without any success Remeber the slaughter at North Harbour when Wesley posted the biggest score in a National final against Rotorua boys who was coaching them that day
Plus he borke away from the Wesley Family . LEGER is clealry a better coach.
Tevita was a great prop at school, Tevita has broken all the strength reconrds at AUCKLAND westside as he has got all day to push weights as the rest of the team are playing rugby. He needs to get out of Auckland and play some rep rugby instead of pushing weights
Sekope has been ID by the Union as a prop for the World Cup in 20011
He had skil sixe speed and a brain
Blackie you cannot compare teams with the passed and present. Todays players have much more telant fitness and skill. That is why there is some many modern players in Beans side, There are exeptions. Look at Bean himself deliberatly faild SC so he could spend another year in the 1st xv thats the type of player we need, I see in the North South Mag is sone is training for the 1st xv great to see
Blakie Willie followed a profession because he new he was a good player not a great player that is why he does not make Beans team Plue Llook in the old school mag and see that some school called St Stephens were the king of the hill in those days.
Anonymous what have you been smoking man that team could not beat Wesley 2006 Under 15 side
Commander lets not be to PC that team wouold not give Beanies team a run its only worth would be to turn up to enable a game to be played. They would run out of puff fairly quickly.
What about Uini ANTONIO the man is a 147 k on prime tongan taro and is only turned 16
It's all just a bit of fun. Of course it's unfair to compare players from different. These a just a few players that I have had the pleasure of seeing play in the black and white of Wesley, and no, I don't smoke.
Uini is not Tongan and it's ATONIO
Uini is not Tongan, he's Samoan and it's ATONIO...lol...I'm a fan.
Notice theres no arguement with Hiwi Tauroa as coach awesome counties teams in the late 70s. Dixie Awhitu for 7 Yea others may have been beta but he was a human wrecking ball and a real underdog cause he was the "wrong shape" to short to wide etc but just loved to see his tackling.
It is all too obvious that each and every 1st fifteen was a good one. Wesley has never had a bad first team!The differences were in their scores, games for and against, their opposition etc etc.. and those differences can never be shared or compared. Thats why they are called differences.The game that you play today will be different to the game that you play tommorrow!The teams of the 60's and 70's cant be compared to the more recent teams because of their differences. There are far too many.What they can share though is that they were good, they were winners and they played for Wesley 1sts!These are things that can and will be shared by all of those players and coaches who have been in the !st fifteen !!!The dream team that we need is the team to beat Rotorua Boys to get into the top 4 this year! Sorry to bore you guys!!!
Interesting comments about the wanna-be Tongan Uini Atonio. Didn't he play Antonio in one of his Shakespearean roles?
Does anyone remember Vince Fatu? All I remember was that he was the player of the NZ secondary schools sevens tournament in 2001 and was on the wing with Siti on the other? Tame and Salosi were added into the team later on in the season. This IS the side that went through a season unbeaten!
yeah thanks fallas. CB's ultimate team should be the one which exemplified the Wesley kaupapa. That's right! you know it! The 1979 2nd XV.
All the rugby superstars in Chris's team have done well for themselves and their teams, and good on them. Playing well isn't enough to be listed on the ultimate team. Lots of guys played well in their day. We should be judging our team on what it means to be the best when playing in the Black and White stip. Chris's team is based on players who mostly achieved greatess after they left school.
Who would this team line up against? The mighty AB's may take a few hits with CB's team as it stands. I like the line up but I agree with Blackie that players like Dixie Awhitu, Bruce Ahlers, at flank would add some mongrel to any top side. I believe the late '70's scrums were all heavier and more mobile than the then AB's sides that were also world class at the time. Those sides had regular games with the National Barbarians Rugby Football Club which featured current and recently stood down All Blacks. Those years also had Counties Manukau Rep players when the region was top of the National provincial and sec sch competitions, national secondary schools players. These were very competitive sides and consistently contended for top honors. Rugby wasn't a career option as it is today so the opportunities to progress were often superceded by life. Current age and performance does't count. I'd put Tukua Tonga at lock, Craig Takarangi & Willi Royal as props & Moses Fifita as reserve front row and Nicky Downs as halfback (sorry Cliffy, you'd be next). I'd stack this team against and top side,sec school,super 14 or whatever. Bring it on! agree with Hiwi as top coach, haven't experienced Grinterd reign although CB's record is pretty impressive,and kets not forget the late John DeSilver and the infamous 'Cow Paddock!'
I have grown and seen pretty much every game from 1990-present and I LOVED IT!!. Why?? THE PASSION that each player had in thier eyes, thier strength that was feared by every team that stood before them. Each player brought something great to the game win or loss, but it seems to be fading away. Now I notice players are more worried about being noticed and having thier names being echoed through the streets, that the passion for the game is fading away like Jonahs career.
To compare TEVITA MAILAU to SEKOPE KEPU is like comparing a BULL to a HORSE!. A BULL has speed and strength, but a HORSE only has SPEED!!. SEKOPE is a great player and skilled, but there is SOMETHING about TEVITA MAILAU!!I wont be shocked if he is wearing a ALLBLACK jersey at the WORLD CUP 2011. I'll be even happier if both SEKOPE and TEVITA get to wear that jersey, because they are both GREAT in thier own way.
i agree with the comment on top!!!!
What is the best team?
1. It was a team that have no outstanding (Secondary School) player but was making an impact on the field of 15 & 7 games.Moascar Cup Winner and beating Te Aute, CCNZ and some of the big names.86.
2. A team may have a soccer player for a Coach and who couldnt even catch a high ball, and let alone a game plan, but was turning up every game day and make an effort. Still proud to be Wesley 1st XV after loosing a few games. Although a few star player should have taken over as assistant Coach...These player were massive in height and weight.Get into a few brawl, I mean an all out brawl because a parent on the other side was calling out to get that big black bastard.... it was a laugh in the showers but the boss wasnt impress. 84 & 85 1st XV
3. In fact any Wesley 1st XV have different characters, coaches and players makeup. We did enjoy the 86 team, with a great coach, parents support, students support and a 2nd XV that give us a hard game on training day. If Grinter was prep 85 1st XV on his first year in school, the 86 will be more dynamic and successful I believe.This team was more mobile and fitter and became the baseline team Grinter develop the rest on.
So they are my Great Teams in many way and form.
For individual players, they are all OK but if they wore the School, Stanton, or that red colour house ( must be old, cant remember that house), just killed them all. Eh Chris.
I have watched and followed the earlier games when Tipene and their "premier team" would be way ahead with their bumble bee they would stick on the middle of the pitch (early 80's) I remember some great battles.
In 1990s I am surprised no one mentioned DJ Aisea. unstoppable on the field and off. Do you all remember the first rugby practice/trial involving Aisea.Lol.
1)Lester Holani
2)Bill Veikoso
3)Tevita Mailau
4)Hale Tu'uhoko
5)George Stowers
6)Koula Tukino
7)Noa Soqeta
8)Sione Kepu
9)Rhys Duggan
10)Ben Coles
11)Jonah Lomu
12)Seilala Mapusua
13)Salesi Moimoi
14)Sitiveni Sivivatu
15)Waisake Sotutu
Whats up with Sailos being in the top team. My team is based on how they played at school, not outside Wesley.
wassup guys just wana say dat cb team is pwetay mud ay i like dat team down bottom the players that were on form wen dae were at skewl
hows dis team
1.L HOLANI
2.B VEIKOSO
3.T MAILAU
4.H TU'UHOKO
5.G STOWERS
6.K TUKINO
7.N SOQUETA
8.S KEPU
9.R DUGGAN
10.S DONALD/D RAWLINSON
11.J LOMU
12.S MAPUSUA
13.S MOIMOI
14.S SIVIVATU
15.W SOTUTU
BAK IN MY DAE MAN DEAZ GUYS WERE THE .... mean guys ay theyve all made top teams ay
yeah Tevita may have broken a few records but that doesn't mean jack on the field.....scrummed against him in both 2005/06 on both sidesof the scrum, and he's mud.....hence the reason he hasn't been getting any game time. This the same problem Sekope has as well...these guys can't scrum. rugby any just about pushing weights...and I was only maxing 100kg on the bench-press at that time. but it does help if you have good technique. both these guys are overrated....
Interesting blog!
I reckon Ken Pourewa (1990)should be up there as best second five (Counties and NZ Ses). Ken was an all rounder, as opposed to some of those mentioned. Superb passing, kicking and communication skills. Was also pretty good on defence for a little fulla.
Nick Tuwhangai is also my pick at number eight.
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